Questions about the DLC add-ons, the Dragon Age: Journeys browser game, the upcoming character creator, and much more have been answered in the latest developer responses on the official Dragon Age: Origins forums.
Mike Laidlaw on characters leveling up when they’re not in the party:
Characters not in your current party, but part of your “team” receive XP at the same rate as the characters in your current party.
After an epic dungeon run, it’s not uncommon to return to camp and be able to level up everyone that stayed behind.
I’m not a fan of “the B party,” who remain permanently low level and kinda gimpular.
Mike Laidlaw on the number of side quests:
Well, I’m just hazarding a guess here, but I would expect that the comments are related to a specific portion of the game only having X side quests.
I’m _reasonably_ certain that we have more than 10 optional quests in Dragon Age. In fact, I’m reasonably certain we added more than that in February alone.
Or I’ve been hallucinating the past half year. Always a possibility!
Mike Laidlaw on Morrigan only being shown in one set of clothing:
Nope, but as noted, it is a signature outfit for her, so we use it consistently in screenshots. Morrigan can wear any robe or armor that she’s strong enough to equip, though robes tend to offer the most benefits for mages.
Mike Laidlaw on blood and gore:
Persistent gore can be disabled, if you wish. Certainly an option and one you can use, if don’t like the gore. It does fade down over time, regardless, and since it was asked, yes, there’s multiple levels of gore that can appear on a character. Switching out your armor will remove it, also.
And while it doesn’t go towards the question from the OP, I will note that you are never forced to have sex, date, flirt, smile coyly, or endure an afternoon shopping at Bed, Bath and Beyond during the course of Origins.
If you’re not interested in that part of the game, simply tell anyone who flirts with you that you’re not interested. They will react accordingly.
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Yep. “Enable persistent gore” and a tick box. It’s in.
The Buffy origin would be interesting, but I’m thinking about it in terms of “medieval slayer” more than DA goes to the Mall. Sten at a mall would be…interesting. Anyway, back to finishing this game!
Chris Priestly on when the character creator will be made available:
We are planning on making the Character Creator and opening the doors to the new Social site at 10am Mountain Standard Time on Tuesday October 13. Check your local time zone to see what time it will be available in your area.
Basically, this means I don’t want to see a lot of people saying “It is a minute after midnight in my local timezone. That means it is Tuesday Oct 13. So where is my Character Creator? Priestly, you suck!”
We are working hard to have things ready for 10 am on Tuesday MST. I will post an update Tuesday morning with a status update once I awaken from my Thanksgiving turkey coma. Stay tuned.
Chris Priestly on the Dragon Age: Journeys browser game:
Now how did this get out already? *goes and checks schedule* Hmm.. it seems I need to pay more attention to when we’re sneaking you folks the early peeks.
This is indeed a flash mini game BioWare and EA2D worked together to produce. We’ll have more information and details on it when we get closer to the flash game’s launch. Here at BioWare Canada we are getting ready for next week’s Character Creator and Social Website beta test launch (not to mention Monday is Thanksgiving, so we’re all anticipating a huge meal).
Lots of coolness to come. Stay tuned.
Chris Priestly on the game’s delay resulting in more content:
If we had shipped the PC version (or any version) back in March, there would have been no Golem character/Stone Prisoner plot available. The only reason it is available now is we had the extra time to fix it.
I think the person who pointed out that the delay to the PC ship allowed for this content to be available looked at it the correct way.
Chris Priestly on the game officially coming to Steam:
Actually, just this afternoon, we finished up the deal, so I can now confirm that Dragon Age: origins WILL indeed come to Steam.
Now, before you all go running over to Steam to pre-order, the page is not up yet. Both us and the fine folks at Valve are working to make something for you ASAP, but I think it won’t be ready till next week. So just us a little time and we’ll let you know as soon as it is ready.
Stay Tuned.
David Sims on the City Elf being able to slay so many enemies:
It is indicated within the origin that your mother, who is now dead, secretly trained you in the use of weapons.
Is that enough to explain how you are able to kill dozens of armed guards? Not particularly, but this is a game, and you are the hero. The number of people you kill throughout the story is very unrealistic, no matter which origin or path you take. If it still bothers you, think of your character as filled with fiery vengeance, while the guards are surprised, drunk and generally incompetent.
David Sims on adding DLC and the process of getting the game out the door:
The process of shipping a game is a gradual series of hardening and locking down. The world needs to be solidified so that the plot structure can be formed. The plot structure needs to be solid so that the plots can be written. The plots need to be written so that they can be scripted. The plots need to be scripted so that they can be tested. The plots need to be tested so that they can be voiced. The plots need to be voiced so that they can be staged and given cinematic polish. The cinematic polish needs to be finished so that it can be tested. Everything needs to be locked down so that performance testing and optimization and eventually disc layout and certification can be done.
Now, things don’t always work perfectly, and changes often have to be made to things which were assumed to be locked, which causes a ripple effect and lots of work for everyone. You need to stop changing things at some point so everything that depends on them can be done. DLC is a separate product, so it doesn’t have to be tested and verified as part of the final build, it doesn’t have to be accounted for in the disc layout, and it doesn’t have to be in the game when it goes through official certification. It has its own schedule and its own verification process. And let’s not forget its own budget, because ultimately games are a business and manpower is limited by money.
To make the console ports possible, the content of Dragon Age was locked down in the spring. It wasn’t possible to add new content past that point, and the VO lockdown was much earlier than that. The game was still tested and improved with bug fixes, stability and performance improvements etc, but adding whole new adventure like Wardens Keep? That would have pushed the release date back. The PC version had a very long time after content lockdown for testing and final polish, which could have been cut short to ship that version earlier, but it was decided to ship it simultaneously with the console versions for a variety of reasons. But that’s a separate issue.
Could we have taken people from the DLC team and put them on the console version to speed the porting process up? Not really. Porting content requires a lot of programmers and not very many designers. We had a surplus of writers, tech designers and cinematic designers and even artists, so we put them to use. If anything, DLC is taking away from potential future projects, not from Dragon Age: Origins.
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First, it’s decided that a game has to ship on a certain date. Unless you’re going to delay the game, that can’t change. You then start working back from there.
The manufacturer needs the final build and disc layout with enough time to print and ship the game, so you need to be completely done the game by that earlier date.
Now to ship a game, you need to go through publisher certification and if you’re on consoles you also need to go through the console manufacturer’s certification. These things take time, so that gives you an earlier deadline.
You have to prepare for that certification process, so you set a date where you can’t make any changes except fixing things that would cause you to fail certification.
Before that there’s a date when you can’t fix any bugs except ones that have been approved by a triage group, so the game can be tested in a stable form and you don’t introduce problems at the last minute.
Before that there’s a date where you can’t add anything new so you have enough to test and to fix bugs on what’s there.
And it goes on, to earlier and earlier lockdown dates.
The process of shipping DLC is independent of all of this. DLC is much smaller than a game, and it’s tested and certified independently and much more quickly, so it’s not bound by the above dates. You can work on DLC right up to and past ship without effecting the release date.
If it’s done, you could release the DLC for free, which would essentially make it a day 1 patch, but it absolutely could not be on the disk. That’s pretty close to what we’ve done with Shale, as an incentive to get people to create an account and learn how to use the download service. To ship all DLC for free however ignores the fact that the DLC is made to be sold. The people working on it are paid by a budget that is only approved on the basis that there will be sales in return.
As for firing the designers and hiring more programmers, the workforce isn’t that flexible. Finding good talent takes time, and firing skilled employees because they don’t have enough work in the short term is folly.
David Sims on adding more origin stories:
I wouldn’t want to add an origin story unless it could match the quality of the ones already in the game. And that doesn’t just mean the origin itself, but also the tie-ins, consequences and unique content throughout the game.
To accomplish that you’d have to bundle the origin with a related major plot: an additional area on the world map where players of the new origin could have a very different experience from all the other origins.
You would also need to modify a lot of existing conversations and scripting to account for the new origin. In some cases that might even mean bringing back an old voice actor for just a line or two, because sometimes there is a unique line for each origin and no default line to fall back on. It would be a very difficult process, and the testing would be much more difficult than most other DLC.
Ferret Baudoin on DLC:
I’ve been on the DLC team since the beginning and it’s exciting that we’re trying genuine new ideas (to me, at least). New things usually come with questions and controversy, so I’ll take a crack at answering things. I imagine often I’ll just be paraphrasing Fernando, because he’s answered a bunch already.
I wrote one of the DLC questgivers (Warden’s Keep) and my intent when writing was to hit the same bar of quality as DAO and give players an idea of the adventure they’re in for. Reading the thread I hear your concerns, but beyond reviews and metacritic I think it’s kind of neat that you get at least the intro to the quest for free. And if you’ve already bought the DLC it’s a seemless experience as you then go from the questgiver to the new section of the game. It’s meant to be very immersive.
Yes, if you haven’t purchased the DLC you eventually get to a point to where you buy it or walk away, but I think as a player you’d be in a better position to know if you’re interested or not in that piece of DLC than reading a text blurb on a website. It’s also super convenient.
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Fernando’s statement that the sales transaction is immersion breaking (and should be) and my statement that the questgiver is very immersive aren’t contradictory (as has been pointed out). The dialog, character, etc. are all firmly in world. It’s just the mechanics of buying the DLC that is GUI-rific and makes it clear you’re about to spend money.
Warden’s Keep was devised and implemented by a completely separate team and it had no relation to anything the main team was working on. We started work on it at a time when things were getting to increasing levels of locked down in the main game – somewhere before we needed the Bat Signal and a signed order from the Prime Minister to unlock a resource. The questgiver is in a separate module and with scripting mojo he’s inserted into the main game.
In many respects our team is the first modders, and it’s been fun and challenging working out the kinks in the system. And the end result is we created some fun content and also (and possibly more importantly) we’ve made it easier for the community to make their own adventures.
As far as the advertising nature of the DLC questgiver – I ask you to play with an open mind. The questgiver isn’t a shill, he’s hopefully an engaging character with a problem and an opportunity for the PC. From my perspective there are many games I’m more than happy to pay for DLC to expand my game experience, and what we’ve done is made it so that everyone has an opportunity to know that there’s more stuff available.
That awareness is something that I wager everyone on this forum would find redundant – but there are a huge number of RPGers out there that don’t read daily gaming news, subscribe to our newsletter, or visit us here. This way everyone is informed and can decide yay or nay on having some further adventures.
When you see it in action, let us know what you think. Although, please try to do so in a civil manner. We earnestly care about making your experience great. No foolin’.
Derek French on a multi-language format:
Here is the current information; it shouldn’t change, but I might as well reserve that right.
Dragon Age: Origins
——————-
Text languages – English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian, Polish and Russian
Full VO languages – English, French, German, Polish and Russian
Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian get English VO with subtitles.
PC
==
English – 1 disk
English/Spanish – 1 disk
English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Czech, Hungarian and Polish – 2 disks
Russian – 1 disk
Xbox 360
========
English
English, Italian, Spanish
French
Polish
German
Russian
PS3
===
English
English, French, German, Italian, Spanish
Polish
Russian
This is for retail box versions. Digital distribution versions will vary per distributor.
Depending on your region of the world will determine which language options you can purchase. For example some console versions have are PAL and some are NTSC. Some retailers may only sell the English version while others will sell the ones with more languages. You will need to check with your specific retailer for more information.
Derek French on the character creator:
Free to download for anyone with an internet connection, hard drive space and minimum system requirements.
Since it is using the game engine, you could consider this a hardware test for your computer and Dragon Age: Origins PC. If there Character Creator works on your system, then the game should start up just fine.
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The Dragon Age: Origins Character Creator is a subset of the main game using the same graphics and audio engine. You will only be looking at your character on a “stage” so it will tell you if your computer can start the game up.
The Dragon Age: Origins Character Creator will not tell you how your computer will run the game during a large combat encounter.
Fernando Melo on DLC additions and codes:
Someone posted about the majority of dissatisfaction stemming from a perception issue – you are absolutely correct. And I suspect that for those that feel wronged somehow at DLC being available day 1, there is probably nothing we will be able to say or do to change their minds.
But for what its worth, know that it was a real challenge for us in deciding how early to launch these – as explained already, the date change for the game launch meant we were in the odd position of having DLC content actually ready for launch.
And before we go further down the ‘it should have been in the disc’ direction, David’s comments (recently reposted on this thread) were spot on. Despite what you may want to believe, there was no way that this content would ever have made the discs – not without delaying the game itself. It was simply not finished when the main game started going into lockdown.
Think of it this way – if we were developing a web page, we could continue to work on that and virtually finish it the evening before the game went live, and still be there for launch. But there would have been no way that the same web page would have made the disc layout or even digital game lockdowns weeks or months earlier.
The DLC team operates under a shorter dev cycle than the main game, and as such we were able to catch up to the main game with respect to launch dates, but that is very different from making that same content available for the disc or even digital distribution production dates.
Continuing on…
We could also have easily decided to artificially hold DLC back at least 2 weeks so people didn’t get this perception.
However – there were a lot of good points to getting this content out there asap.
The sweet spot that all players keep asking for is that you want content available for right when you finish the game. And despite DA:O being a massive title, even at 40-80hrs for a playthrough you are feasibly talking about a week or less if someone takes some time off and really goes for it – not that any of you here are that into DA right *cough cough*.
With the case of Warden’s Keep and The Stone Prisoner these not only give you new content but content that persists and therefore benefits you throughout the rest of your game. A Keep in WK, and a party member in TSP. We wanted this to be available for players that may only want to enjoy a single playthrough of the game, and still get the most out of these.
You guys right here on the forums were an influence too. Right around the time we were looking into this in the early spring is when the forums absolutely exploded (wrongly) about the perception that the PC game was done but being delayed solely because of consoles etc.
There were also more practical internal reasons too – like being able to use it to help promote the main game, help test out some of these systems early on, help validate that we are on the right track financially (ie. showing some revenue early) to maintain support for and justify sustaining such a team for the long haul, and getting DLC feedback from fans asap. We have a long plan, but without fan feedback early we could end up spinning our wheels and producing too much of the wrong thing before we know it.
Once we also decided on TSP as an included DLC incentive, and had pre-order items for retailers, and rolled out the digital deluxe edition with WK – the reason to hold back something like WK for everyone else (or the paid version of TSP) became almost moot. At that point the tables were turned and it was more likely we’d get a stronger backlash for why certain players could get DLC that was clearly finished and working, but others could not.
So, long story short, in the end we opted for these first DLC that it was better to just make it available than hold back, even knowing there could be some backlash to the day 1 perception.
We felt that when the DLC actually launched should be less important than the fact that it is available for when players may want it. Even if that meant taking a few lumps for it.
If that is day 1 for you, enjoy and tell us what you think. If that is a year from now, fantastic. If its not your thing, also fine, let us know what you thought of the main game or why it doesn’t interest you.
Ultimately – and I’ve mentioned this many times on the forums – you don’t need to buy these. And if you are on the fence then please check out the DLC page. There will also be reviews of this coming at some point, and I fully expect your fellow forumites will be very vocal about their thoughts on DLC they’ve played as well.
Make an informed decision on your time – but know that it will be there for whenever you are ready.
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There are new blood based abilities but these are not the same as blood magic. The DLC abilities are a brand new ability chain.
You can access Warden’s Keep (and the quest to obtain Shale) once the world map opens up – you need to be able to travel in the world first for these.
If you buy a 360 (or any platform) in UK, you can use the codes back home (Germany, in the specific question) – codes are platform specific (PC codes only work on PC), but the codes are not region specific. However, be aware that for console games the main game discs themselves may be region locked. (not an issue in this specific case however of going from UK -> DE)
The Stone Prisoner and Blood Dragon Armor codes are in the physical box itself and printed on a card (you can see an example of the cards on the DLC page). I’m not aware of retailers actually opening up sealed boxes themselves and taking items like that out.
Fernando Melo on DLC, again:
As has been said before, no one is obligated in any way to pick up additional content. And certainly no NPC will be chasing you around Ferelden tugging at your sleeve, nor will billboards suddenly materialize along the countryside.
The idea of NPCs was specifically because of immersion, and not say having a typical micro-transaction store fest a la MMO, or any of the in-your-face examples above.
These are quest givers, like any other. They have the same writing care and VO quality as any other character in DA:O. They are not part of any critical path – you are again not obligated in any way, or forced to acquire anything in order to continue on your normal game.
In fact, as with any other side quest in the game, you can simply opt to ignore it and move on. Or return later if you choose.
For us DLC is anything added to the original game – from items all the way to full expansions – its all additional content. Its a way for us to expand the game world and we put a lot of effort to keeping it in fiction.
Keep in mind as well that we’re creating for many different tastes – not the least of which is PC & consoles. What works for one, may not necessarily work for the other, and that’s ok.
You might also have seen some press interviews talking about DA:O as a platform. That means a few things, but one way to view it is that we want to continue growing DA:O and trying to do it as seamlessly as possible – right in front of your eyes – if we can, and if you choose to.
Or, you can simply enjoy the massive amount of content already in DA:O, and huge replayability options and never bother with any of this stuff.
So let me paint a scenario… imagine for a sec, if six months or a year or more from launch as you’re doing your n-th playthrough, having recently dusted off the disc for old times sake, you encountered a quest giver NPC that you didn’t recall coming across before in previous playthroughs – but given DA:O’s size, that’s also not entirely surprising in and of itself.
He tells you about his recent ordeal and how he found some ruins somewhere nearby with plenty of loot, and danger. He is willing to take you there as you look capable, for a cut of the findings. As you hear more eventually you notice a dialog option that indicates the catch – its a new downloadable area – for sake of argument, assume it is free in this case.
But instead of manually having to save, quit, download, install, revert to an old save, or patch the game you can just say ‘alright, take me there’ and your quest journal updates.
He says that he’ll need a few minutes to prepare for the journey, and will let you know when he’s ready (meanwhile, the download has started seamlessly in the background). You’re anxious, so you start up the conversation again, but this time he polites reminds you that he’s still preparing for the trip and to come back in a few minutes.
You keep exploring a bit more in the local area, closing off a few other quests nearby that you had. Soon enough, your quest journal has updated again, this time indicating that your new friend seems to finally be ready to take you to the ruins. You return, talk to him again, and this time he’s ready to go. He says he’s made a note of the location on your map. You pop the map open and now notice a new area on it. You click it and begin your journey there.
So in this context/example what would you think about such an NPC appearing? Is the issue largely only if it was a paid content item? And before we really get off the rails, let me clarify that the above was something I just made up as I’m curious about people’s thoughts on where they feel the immersion line may fall
We’ve been quite open that as much as we’re committed to the long term plan of supporting DA:O, we’re also trying to figure this all out – will something like this work? Hopefully. And if not we’ll change it. This is a long term commitment to improve and evolve DA:O, not a short term cash grab.
Parking all that as food for thought…
To touch on some of the other questions – we’ll have more info soon (before launch), but you won’t need to stop what you’re doing in the game to ‘fill out your details’ during gameplay. That would just suck, and clearly break the immersion factor we’re trying to adhere to
As for who the DLC team is. I’ll let them identify themselves if they wish for now – we’ll have an opportunity to shine a light on them after launch. But if you are that curious, I would encourage you to check out the game credits when it comes out. You may be surprised at who had a hand in the DLC so far.
Lastly, player mods on PC. Something we’d like to do is be able to deliver some of the top mods through the DLC menu. We’re still some ways from that, but the goal is for players that may normally not even realize that mods exist to experience some of the best without having to leave the game.
Craig Graff on effect stacking:
Some effects stack, most don’t. Effects from the same spell or ability will pretty much never stack but some abilities that overlap in purpose can sometimes have a stacking effect. Damage pretty much always stacks, of course.
This is off the top of my head. I could be misremembering something and I can’t really go in to more detail without having the game or the toolset handy.
Craig Graff on dragon fights:
While it’s certainly true that playing the dragon fight seen in the demo is far more engaging and exciting than watching it (especially considering that the combat was simplified for the sake of the demo), that is probably the least bad-*** dragon fight you will have in DA. The dragons that are actually dragons (and not shapeshifters or some such) don’t pull any punches.
Since I haven’t played Demon Souls yet I can’t compare them directly, but you are in for a treat with the DA boss fights in general, dragons especially.
Craig Graff on friendly fire:
While I haven’t been a big fan of friendly fire in previous games (such as BG2) I actually like it in DA. You get a targeting reticle as well as highlights which indicate both the area and the creatures affected by the AoE. It’s actually fun to dodge a little to the side with my mage so that I can freeze the whole vanguard of darkspawn with one cone of cold blast without hitting any of my party members.
Whether or not you enjoy using the spells with friendly fire will depend largely on your party makeup and your play style. I find that my elemental mage really shines when coupled with a support/healer mage, a ranged rogue/ranger and a beefy tank type to gather the enemies (supplemented by the ranger’s spider). A well placed ireball, followed by a blizzard can be a devastating combination for the ranged attackers and cone of cold lets me control anyone that slips past the tank, or just freeze the front line so my tank can literally smash them to pieces.
Luckily, if you don’t like friendly fire there’s still a metric ton of great abilities that don’t have a FF component. Friendly fire is mostly a concern for mages, but mages have so many options open to them that they can completely ignore the AoE damage spells and still provide devastating crowd control and damage by using spells like Glyph of Paralysis, Mass Paralysis, Mind Blast, and Sleep combined with the single target damaging spells. Better yet, add some blood magic into the mix.
There are also many nice options for controlling your party so they don’t just go charging in to damaging spells like Tempest or Blizzard. You can have them be cautious or defensive so that they don’t attack without your say-so, or they can be set as ranged and will always try to keep their distance from the enemies.
My advice would be to play the game before getting overly concerned about friendly fire. On the console, with the greater focus on directly controlling one party member at a time and the faster paced combat, there is no friendly fire on normal or easy difficulty (and I still find it easy to avoid damaging my own party members on the higher difficulty settings). On the PC, with the tactical camera and the ease of issuing orders to the selected party members (FF is still off on easy and 50% on normal) I find that friendly fire actually adds to my fun. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Craig Graff on fleeing from battle with downed companions:
It is sometimes feasible to run away (usually in larger more open areas) if you stealth or have disabled the enemies. However what Chris said still applies because if you left a fallen comrade near the enemy forces you will be still be in combat (because as long as one of your party is perceiving an enemy you will still be considered “in combat”).
Brian Chung on strafing and other maneuvering techniques:
Yes you can.
In fact, at PAX 2009, Nathan Zufelt (cinematic animator) and I watched in astonishment as one of the play-, ahem, Grey Warden recruits, went up against a trio of darkspawn archers. The rest of the party was down, it was just Daveth with a sliver of health left (basically a sneeze would have killed him).
His tactic then had him hide behind a column so the enemy archers can’t hit him, and would strafe out, fire off a shot, and strafe back behind cover.
Took all three archers down for an impressive finish, they never hit him once.
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Nah, it’s more simpler than that. Those darkspawn archers were flagged as archer types for their AI state, so as long as their target was not within melee range, they’d stick to using bows. They do switch to melee if you get too close, but the player wasn’t stupid himself (1hp? anyone).
It just so happens the player out-shot them, as he was strafing behind cover, but they were being stupid and standing out in the open.
Also, you’d note that the game has some actual physics as it’s not pure dice-rolling and skills involved for the attack roll, as the arrows missed the player when he got out of the way after they were shot, but before they reached his location (not instant travel / pre-determined hit on attack).
Mary Kirby on the Penny Arcade comic:
You know… the stories the Chasind tell of the Witch of the Wilds aren’t happy stories, right? They don’t have tales of Flemmeth throwing birthday parties and being nice to people. They pass down stories of their sons and husbands stolen by the witch. Men out hunting to feed their families killed with fear by the daughters of Flemmeth. She’s not an accepted and cherished quirk of their culture, she’s the monster that mothers frighten their children into behaving with. They don’t want her in their backyard any more than the Fereldens do.
What makes the Templars feel justified in hunting her? I don’t know, isn’t slaying the monsters that terrorize innocent people one of the things knights are supposed to do? Go figure.
Mary Kirby on adding more origin stories:
Anything is possible, in that vague, theoretical sense of the word “possible.” But Origins are one of the most costly and difficult things for us to add in late, making it extremely improbable that more will ever be added as DLC. It could happen. But I think this would require the invention of a time machine, or the discovery of a hitherto unnoticed giant pile of gold dubloons in the breakroom or something similar in order for us to pull it off.
Mary Kirby on the main storyline changing in a second play-through:
The main story is the same, but there are some completely different paths and resolutions for the various plots, and there are some dramatic differences to the plots based on origin.
For example: Everyone will go to Orzammar during the course of the game. But for the dwarves, this is a homecoming, and the Dwarf Noble gets a completely different reaction from all the major characters in the city than the Dwarf Commoner, who is returning home as someone who has risen from the filth of the streets to become a hero, and both have a much more personal connection to the plot there than the Human Noble or the City Elf.
